Masculinity Decoded: Initiative, Risk, and Healthy Manhood

We often hear about masculinity through extremes—either as toxic or outdated. But what if true masculinity is neither? In this insightful episode of Second Thoughts with Dr. Roger Hall, we unpack the essential, yet often misunderstood, core of healthy masculinity: initiative.

Dr. Hall reveals why real masculinity is about risk-taking, courage, and protection—not domination or bravado. From the power of daily habits to the dangers of counterfeit hyper-masculinity promoted online, this episode reframes what it means to be a strong, responsible man in today’s world.

Learn how initiative shapes attraction, fulfillment, and leadership—and why both men and women benefit when masculinity is expressed in its healthiest form.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• The difference between healthy and malignant masculinity.
• Why initiative, not aggression, is the core masculine trait.
• How courage, risk, and responsibility create trust and attraction.
• The role of self-discipline and why “go juice” beats laziness.
• Why many young men today feel lost—and how to reclaim authentic masculinity.
• Modern vs. historical masculinity: What changed, and what still works?

This episode will challenge your assumptions and offer practical ways to cultivate healthy masculine strength—without falling into the traps of toxic extremes.

Transcript

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... as long as you're taking initiative, there will be risk, okay? But you can wait for the solution to come to you- Right.... or you can go out and seek to create the solution. Right. Yeah, I like that a lot. That's the initiative. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Just in my life, I've seen that every day, like absolutely every day, the initiative, or there's- there's this level, it feels like, where if I just let it happen, then I get bulldozed over, in emotions and mentally. But if I, like, stand up to it or find a solution to the problem, what you're saying, take initiative, then I feel better at the end of the day, number one. (laughs) Yeah. And number two, unfulfilled, too. Right, right. And so- so you're rightfully taking your place of taking initiative, and part of that is a protective thing which comes in- in healthy masculinity, which is, how do I protect the people around me that I love and have a responsibility to care for? Hello, I'm Dr. Roger Hall, and this is Second Thoughts with Roger Hall, podcast where I pretty much respond to whatever anybody asks me. Today we're gonna talk about, um, masculinity and femininity. I th- I think there has been a great deal of, uh, unhealthy masculinity and unhealthy femininity, and, um, I hope today to shed some light on what I think are, uh, healthy qualities. Great. Well, thank you, Roger. Um, thanks for answering these questions and all of that. Um, what's the difference between masculinity and femininity, just first off? I- I would say the essential order of masculinity and femininity, the essential, the- the essential quality of masculinity is initiative, which is acting, deciding and then acting, uh, without, uh, without force, without pressure. So I- I would argue that the essential nature of masculinity is to take initiative. Now, that's not to say that women don't take initiative, and- and, um, i- if you wanna misquote me and- and believe silly things, feel free, but that's not what I'm saying.(laughs) Uh, of course women initiate. But if we talk about the essential nature of masculinity, it is, um, it is initiative. The essential nature of femininity is response. Hmm. Um, which is, um, uh, the response to that initiative. And we see this, um, we see this in the animal kingdom, in- in most, in- in most species, yes, there are, um, there are, uh, females of species that take the lead. Um, but typically, uh, the masculine initiates, uh, and- and the feminine responds. And- Hmm.... again, it doesn't mean that- that men don't respond and women don't initiate. Uh, but- Sure.... the- the- the general quality is that. Okay. Um, why would... I don't know, I guess, I guess from my perspective, like, why does that matter? Why do- why do I need to initiate anything? Seems a little bit easier for me to just kinda let everything just go by, you know? Um, well, that's not m- that's not much of a life. Um, one of the- one of the unfortunate qualities of having security in our, um, relatively safe country of the United States- Mm-hmm.... is that risk has become something people try to avoid. Hmm. Historically, and in other countries that are, um, less, um, less obviously stable, um, th- there is risk. And, um, if you don't have the courage to approach the risks that come along y- for you in life, yeah, you'll sit back and you'll let someone else take care of you. But that's- that's not an attractive quality. Right. And it's not a quality that propagates the species. Right, right. Okay. So- so timidity and, um, lack of courage, and the- the failure to embrace risk does not, uh, engender any attraction. Gotcha. And so those are all, those are all traits that come with taking initiative? Because taking initiative is a little bit of a general or broad term- Yeah.... for many actions. Yeah. It- it- it's generally that sort of get up and get after it thing. Okay. Um, I had a client who called it go juice.(laughs) He says, "I'm not hiring anybody anymore who doesn't have go juice." And it really is, I- I get up in the morning and I gotta get s- I'm gonna get stuff done. Right. It's not that I'm gonna lay on my couch and wait, uh, uh, wait for the UPS driver to bring my Amazon order or my Uber Eats order. Mm-hmm. Um, it- it's actually doing something. And those, those are the qualities that are so attractive. And I meet a lot of young men who- who say, "You know, I'm a really nice guy. Why is it that the girls are always attracted to the bad boys?"(laughs) And the reason they're attracted to the bad boys is because the bad boys, even though they're doing the wrong things, they have initiative. Right. And that's attractive. I see. So- so, you know, if- if we look at this reproductive dance that men and women do, of attraction and then consummation, um, it really requires that men take initiative, because generally, women are looking for, uh, a man- Hmm.... uh, that does take initiative, one that she does feel like, "Okay, I'm a priority. Um, he's taking care of himself, he's taking care of life. Uh, and, um, you know, if- if we partner up, it- it's gonna be, it's going to be a more secure ride, so I'll respond-" Hmm."... to that initiative." And lots of, lots of men have- have- have taken to the idea that, um, they can just wait for things to happen. And I think the attraction of some popular media figures who are really, really unpleasant people- Hmm.... is, it's, is that they're giving this exterior of hypermasculinity, which is really just, it- it's- it's fake masculinity. Gotcha, yeah. Uh, you know, it- it's got the muscles, it's got the money, it's got the, it's got the, it's got the babes, you know, it- it's got all the things that look like that, you know, the fancy cars. Um, what- what's appealing about that is that this is a person who has embraced risk and takes initiative every day, has courage. Those things are all attractive. Yeah. Those are all attractive qualities. What- what happens, and- and this goes back to a- an ancient concept called the, um, um, the golden mean. Mm-hmm. And the golden mean is, from-from, um... I- I wanna make sure I got this right. I believe it's the platonic golden mean. Maybe Aristotle, but I think it's the platonic golden mean, which... No, it's- it's Aristotle. An- and what- what he says is, there is... It's- it's in his book, Nicomachean Ethics. Um, it's- it's, I have a quality, and- and if we- if we say courage is the quality, that's the golden mean. Hmm. Not enough courage is cowardn- cowardliness, and that's not good. Hmm. An excess of courage, a malignant version of courage, is foolhardiness. Hmm. And so if we look at masculinity, if we look at femininity, there's a golden mean.And if you have too much of the quality, it turns malignant. If you have a deficit of the quality, it's also malignant. Oh, wow. So, so, we're, we're looking for the right amount. But what, what sells clicks, and what, what gets some women attracted is that they're attracted to the initiative, they're attracted to the risk-taking, they're attracted to the courage involved in that, and they don't see the malignant form of it. And, and men who have been socialized to not take risks- Hmm.... um, what they learn, what they wonder is, "Wha- you know, why? I'm a nice guy, why, you know, why aren't the chicks attracted to me?" And it's because you're not taking initiative, you're not taking calculated risks. And, and, and I'll talk about what I mean by risk here in a minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you don't have courage to face that. And, and so people have this idea that, "Oh, oh, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take up, uh, skydiving, you know, e- or s- something really risky, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a, you know, badass motorcycle, and I'm gonna, you know, race down the highway at 120 miles an hour." Right. That's not the kind of risk I'm talking about. I'm talking about calculated risks. Um, f- and excess is foolhardiness. And, and life, where you are self, um, self-contained, where you're driven to, to take care of yourself- Right.... is a risky proposition. You don't have to look for it. Mm-hmm. It will come to you. But- That's crazy. That's a good point. I like that. Y- I, I mean, your, your daily life will have enough risk. I mean, who, who would not die? As long as you're taking initiative, right? As long as you're taking initiative, there will be risk, okay? Eh, but, but you can wait for the solution to come to you- Right.... or you can go out and seek to create the solution. Right. Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah. That's the initiative. That makes a lot of sense. Just in my life, I've seen that every day, like, absolutely every day, the initiative or... There's, there's this level, it feels like, and we'll, we'll keep going down, but there's this level, it feels like, where if I just let it happen, then I get bulldozed over, in emotions and mentally. But if I, like, stand up to it or find a solution to the problem, what you're saying, take initiative, then I feel better at the end of the day, number one. (laughs) Yeah. And number two, I'm fulfilled, two. Right, right. And so, so you're rightfully taking your place of taking initiative. And, and part of that is a protective thing which comes in, in healthy masculinity- Mm-hmm.... which is, how do I protect the people around me that I love and have a responsibility to care for? Yeah. And, and so, so if you, if you d- if you have initiative, if you have courage, if you take risks, but you don't have that protective piece as well, protective for the benefit of the people that you love- Yeah.... then you've not... You, you don't have healthy masculinity. Yeah. Wow. And again, people will go, "Well, you know, I've got this, this obsessively jealous boyfriend, and, you know, he's, he's always suspicious of everything." Yeah, that's not healthy. I'm not calling- Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. I mean, that, that's, again, that's the malignant version of protection, right? Yeah. That it's too much. That, that's, that's safety-ism, you know? How do I, how do I, how do I build a prison abou- around everyone I love, so nothing, no bad thing can happen to them? That, that's not embracing the risk that is life. Right. So, based on your historical understanding, the research that you've gathered and your understanding of psychology, what would you say is a healthy, those healthy lines? And it's kind of a tricky question because it's based on individuals, but what's something that somebody could, like, strive for to be better? Well, I, uh, uh, I think the, the, it, it all starts with the little things. What are the daily disciplines that you have that take initiative? Do you have habits for self-improvement, for life improvement, for financial improvement? Do, you know, spiritual improvement? Mm-hmm. What are you doing without somebody nagging you? Oh, yeah. (laughs) Uh, because that's not, that's not taking initiative. That's response. Yeah, yeah. Okay? And, and, um, so, so what, what are your daily habits? Do you, do you have a set time that you get up every morning? Do you, do you seek to do a little more at your workplace- Hmm.... than is required of you? If you, if you're looking for the bare minimum, that's not initiative. Yeah. And, you know, as I, as I talk with employers, one of their biggest problems is finding people with initiative. Hmm. They don't have go juice. "Tell me what to do. I don't know how to do it," you know? Yeah, wow. And, "I don't have enough training." Well, figure it out. Yeah, yeah. And, and so, so those are some of those habits. When I talk about risk-taking, it isn't about taking physical risks, and it isn't ta- about going to the casino and gambling, 'cause that would just-(laughs) That's not... Um, it's about how do I try something with the potential for failure? Hmm. And, and they can be small failures, they can be, you know, relatively sizable failures. And again, I'm not telling you to, to bet all your, all your money, um, but what I am saying- Relaxing. Yeah, yeah, um.(laughs) I'm just... Now, I'm thinking of Wesley Snipes.(laughs) You know that movie? I think so. I'm pretty sure I'm thinking of the same one. Yeah. Always, always, always bet on black.(laughs) Yeah. I think that's why I brought it up, actually. Yeah, um. Also, a meme online about that too. "I'm a half step away from putting everything on black." (laughs) Yeah, yeah. Um, so anyway, I'm sorry. We're... Now, I'm totally off the trail- Yeah, a completely different take.... of, of Wesley Snipes. And also, like Wes- unlike Wesley Snipes, pay your income tax.(laughs) Um, so anyway, so, um, now that I've wandered far, far away. Um, so, so it really is about, uh, it, it really is about, um, taking, taking the risks that come along in life- Right.... having, having the intestinal fortitude, the spine- Hmm.... to, to take risk, um, a- and, and things will come along. The- there will always be opportunity. And the question is, uh, are you going to shrink from that, or are you going to embrace that? Yeah. Yeah, um, what are... I don't know. You, I think I might know the answer to this, but maybe it'll help if you clarify it a little bit. Going from 0 to 100 is really hard, just in general with, with what a lot of people do. And this sort of take initiative thing is that 100%. Your, your gear is going, you're all in, you're, like, working as hard as you can at something. Um, how could you help people speed ramp up to that? Because- Y- you- I don't know. You're, you're, you're asking me to, to give people, like, a speed ramp for bodybuilding. Yeah, to gain... How do I gain muscle mass overnight? Well, you don't. Yeah. It, it, the human, the human being isn't built that way, that you'll get instant habits. This is not The Matrix where we download our ability to fly, uh, a helicopter immediately. Yeah, yeah, I see. If you want initiative, it comes from tiny little experiments. Okay, okay. And, and, and so you're going to practice and rehearse these tiny little experiments. So, if, if you're employed, do you volunteer for additional work? Right. If you're employed, do you show up early? Do you stay a bi- little bit late? If you're employed, are you doing what your boss asks you to do, not the bare minimum, but above and beyond? And, and you go, "Well, I'm not gonna get paid for that." No, you're not, but you're not doing that for the money. Right. You're doing that to become a, a better person. Right. Uh, I- I- I am troubled by the- the malignant masculinity I see in some popular media figures. Yeah. Um, the- there's an old author who- who wrote cowboy westerns, and- and his name is Louis L'Amour, and I think every boy should read Louis L'Amour novels. Here- here's- here's how it plays out. Cowboy is alone, uh, meets a beautiful raven-haired woman, goes out to earn... See, here's- here's the part, he doesn't think he can just get her in a gunfight, he goes out to earn his fortune either through, uh, a gold mine or cattle, so he go- goes off into the wilderness in this struggle- Mm-hmm.... to prove himself worthy and to make enough money that he can come back- Hmm.... and, um, win the heart of this raven-haired beauty that he's fallen in love with. So, what we see is, he has this desire for a relationship but he wants to prove himself worthy through an important task that requires hard work, sacrifice, and risk. Then once he's done that, he comes back and proves himself worthy and then she joins him and they have a happy life together. Right, right, right, yeah. That's the novel. Um, but- but tho- that's the essential nature which is y- Masculine men, if they want to win the heart of a woman, they make themselves worthy. She doesn't make him worthy. Right. His actions make him worthy. And is there risk there? Yeah, there's, of course there's risk there, that while he's off with the gold mine some- some other guy'll, you know, some- some big spender from, you know, back east can come and- and- and steal her. That's the risk, yes.(laughs) That's great. So you'd say the opposite of that, and- and I mean we'll- we'll go d- as deep as you like to with this, but you say the opposite of that are a lot of the modern day influencers that are showing masculinity on that extreme pendulum like you're talking about. Yes. Okay. Yeah, it's not, it's not opposite it's just a malignant amount of it. Gotcha, okay, yeah. You know, guys in their- in their Speedos, you know, taking pictures of their muscles and their brand new tattoos, sitting on their Lamborghinis. The, uh, I mean it makes them feel good. Okay, that's great, and- and they have lots of money, they probably have lots more money than me, that- that's cool, um, and a certain type of woman will be attracted to that. That's great. But that's not the way most healthy masculinity looks. I mean, it- it really is h- how do I, how do I take risks in the life that is in front of me? How do I, how do I try new things, uh, rather than- than being a- a social media influencer? Right, right. Yeah, I guess the next question I wanna ask is- is let's do a little comparison between modern day, um, masculinity influence and historical masculin- masculinity influence, because I know social media has completely changed- Sure.... the way pers- people perceive masculinity entirely, in- in all the ways that you just described, but- And- and- and- and we have a toxic, um, malignant form of femininity as well, it's this hyper-feminity. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. That's a good point, that's a good point. So, I don't know, maybe, because I have no perspective on what people did back in... I don't know how far back we gotta go to kinda do a good example, but what were a lot of the old masculine examples versus the newer ones? It- it was working with your father on the farm, it w- Oh, wow. Working with other- other men, um, in- in joint tasks where you worked together and you saw men that you believed were honorable and you tried to imitate them, and you saw men that you believed were i- dishonorable and you tried not to imitate them. It's just looking at the sample of the people around you in real life, and we've become in- increasingly atomized with social media so that we really don't do a lot of work projects together. Yeah. And, uh, sons and their fathers, um, you know, besi- besides the disastrous crisis of- of- of divorce in this country, and- and again I'm not pointing fingers, I've been divorced, so I- I'm- I'm not, I'm not pointing fingers, but- but it is a crisis in that, um, about half the boys in the United States are raised away from their father and don't have the influence of a man, and the way that work is set up now is that most men are not working, um, in a way that their children can see what they do. They have no idea- Yeah.... what their, what their parents do. They don't see it, they don't really understand it, uh, and- and so- so they don't see what their, what their, what their fathers do so they have no model. They're- they're, we- we've become an increasingly, and again some of this is good but, um, w- we don't have, um, the stability of seeing people on a weekly basis in, at worship because people- Right.... worship together less, um, w- we don't see people in small communities where- where they're around other men t- to get that. So we, you know, young men are looking and the most convenient place is on their phone, and- and that's- that's not, that's- that's not real life, uh... Yeah, and I think convenience a little bit of a key word there too because that's not initiative. Convenience isn't initiative most of the time. Isn't initiative. Right, right. And- and it requires getting out and- and getting dirty and- and, uh, to- to find these relationships, and to do hard work and to sweat and to get blisters. All of those things are- are the things that are- are really necessary for young men to see how to model behavior. How do you, how do you handle frustration? How do you handle interactions with- with other people, um, and you find out who you admire and who you don't. So- Yeah.... again, it- it's easier and more convenient to find a cartoon character of what masculinity looks like- Right, right.... and frankly, you know, w- we're all attracted to the really good-looking person, and if we look around at our families, you know, they're- they're not movie stars, um, and- and so it's like well, you know, do I want to imitate someone who looks kind of dorky like me or do I want to imitate somebody who looks like a movie star? Well, I'll- I'll- I'll imitate the movie star 'cause human beings are attracted, and I don't mean sexually attracted, but we're- we're just attracted to people who are better looking, it's just human nature. Um, there's- there's research that- that, uh, we tend to look longer and more steadily at better looking people than average and ugly looking people. Wow. So- so better looking people have an inherent advantage, people just look at 'em longer. Wow. (laughs) That's- that's a weird, weird stat though. But, you know. You know, my- my ideas about physical beauty changed, uh, because of reading a book called The Survival of the Prettiest, and it's an evolutionary biolo- biological look at physical attractiveness, and before that I thought oh, that's not that important, and after reading it I go yeah, I guess yeah. Yeah, it matters. It's undeniable in that way. Yeah. Yeah. So, would you say- I mean, why- why do all the movie stars get hair transplants?(laughs) Yeah. I mean, the- the only famous- Or- or lip fillers and... (laughs) Yeah, the- the only famous one that, that hasn't is, um, um, Patrick Stewart.(laughs) You know, and, but he could rock a bald head pretty well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But most of, most of the, you know, the really good-looking actors are- are getting their hair...... their hair put back in. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. So would you say that, like, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but as a blanket statement, modern social media influencers, or even online influencers, or people who are trying to portray masculinity, is negative? No. Uh, uh, no. No. Okay. It's that the malignant sells. Okay. You know, I, I talk to, to people in the financial services, um, business, and if you watch any of those finance shows on TV, they are bad financial advice-(laughs)... but great television. Okay. (laughs) Because everything's a big issue, you know. It, it's like, "Sell, sell, sell. Buy, buy, buy. Move, move, move now." It, it sells ads. But the way financial services works well is really boring. Yeah."Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna dollar cost average and rebalance every year, and, you know, we're gonna watch and try to get this growth rate." And it's like, it, it, it's like watching paint dry.(laughs) It's not interesting. And so social media influencers, they're interested, economically, in growing their audience. Mm-hmm. So they become increasingly dramatic in order to grow their audience. That's just how human beings work. We look longer at dramatic things. Hmm. It, it, um, it's called the Von Restorff effect, that we look at things and pay attention to unusual things. Hmm. And, and we pay attention to them and remember them. It, it's just a, a human perceptual quality. So we're going to look at social media influencers- Wow.... who are really, really extreme because they're really, really interesting to human beings and, and, uh, they catch our eye, they catch our ear. So sound advice, good advice, it's never, it's never, it never sells as much as fear, sex- Yeah.... um, uh, greed. Nothing sells like those things. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Like self-development doesn't sell. I mean, fear sells, sex sells, greed sells. Yeah. But human performance improvement, it's not nearly as popular. Yeah, but it's way more important. (laughs) I- important versus selling are two different things. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, is there anything that you'd like to say or any nugget of advice or anything related to this topic? Yeah. One of the things we talked about before we, we started recording is that the essential nature of masculinity is initiative. The essential nature of femininity is response. But I'll add to this model, every good man requires an invitation. Hmm. That, that no man, no good man will force himself on a woman. Um, no, no good man will initiate where he isn't wanted. That's called a stalker. Right, right, right. (laughs) Okay, so, so he is always looking for some invitation from the feminine that this is where, you know, you want me to initiate. Mm-hmm. So back to the Louis L'Amour. If, if the, the beautiful raven-haired woman, um, looks at him and sneers, well, he's not gonna go off and, and dig a gold mine- Yeah. (laughs)... to bring money back to her. He needs to know that she's interested, and a good man will then go on this quest- Hmm.... uh, take these risks in order to prove himself worthy and to win the heart of this woman, but she needs to initiate. And what women tell me is, like, "Why don't men, like, get it?" It's like, "'Cause we don't."(laughs) Literally. Uh, you know, "Well, I was, I was, like, giving him all the signs." It's like, you know, you, you've gotta, you gotta paint a picture because-(laughs)... men are really pretty oblivious to some of these, these feminine social cues. So, um, that's why men are attracted to this malignant form of femininity. Hmm. And one of the, one of the experiments I, I, I, I've done with my clients who have difficulty with, with their choices in women is I say, "Take a trusted woman friend to the mall with you." And I, I know people don't go to the mall anymore, but-(laughs)... to a gathering of people, and, um, I want you, and this has to be a trusted female friend, to tell her who you think is beautiful. Hmm. And she will tell you, "She's not beautiful. She's just being indiscriminately seductive." There's another word for that, but I won't use it.(laughs) Um, and men confuse this indiscriminate seduction, because seduction is an invitation. Wow. And so, so they confuse, um, certain kinds of dress with attractiveness. And they'll miss the beautiful woman who is not indiscriminately seductive. Wow. You see? Yeah. You see where I'm going with this? Yup. So, so men get confused by this, and so, um, so, so lovely women who are interested in a guy, they're not gonna tramp it up. Well, good, but men usually, you know, especially young men, they don't know how to distinguish that. So they think a woman who's indiscriminately seductive is really, really hot. That doesn't mean she's beautiful. That doesn't mean she's- For sure.... a good character. It just means she's putting on all the signs of, "I'm inviting you." Right, right. Yeah. And again- Wow.... don't anybody take this as this is an invitation for violence, you know? Of course not. (laughs) That, that's, that's, that's not at all what I'm saying. Um, but in this response, good men will never go someplace that they're not invited. Yeah, I think taking initiative too is, there's a level of, um, self-control in initiative, in taking initiative. Absolutely. Absolutely. Being lazy is there's no self-control, you know? Right. And if, if, if we were to talk about the master skill of all- Yes.... of successful people, it is, um, the delay of gratification, self-control, willpower, telling yourself no. It, it, that, that is, that is the foundational skill. Yeah, I think that one's incredibly important to touch over because it, it transcends generations. (laughs) Like, that's just, you know, it's not something that, like, modern day has just been dealing with, you know, between social media and stuff. So we'll, we'll talk about this. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. I mean, th- this, this goes back to, to the caveman days. Yeah. That those who were able to put off an immediate reward for a longer term reward later, uh, were rewarded and had greater success. If, if you were out for yourself and out for the right now, um, you would never have enough to last. Yeah. You know, dogs are not good at saving things.(laughs) But human beings who are successful have figured out,"How do I set some aside for later?" Mm-hmm. Hmm. And that's the self-control piece. Yeah, that's pretty powerful. Thank you, Roger. Yeah. Is there anything else that you, you'd like to share or you feel like that's pretty good information for the topic? I think it's a start. Um, I think there's probably a lot more there, but without becoming critical of people, I, I think- Right.... you don't, you don't have to imitate a, a, a social media influencer. Find a real person who has had success in, in his life, and figure out what he did. You know, successful people are often asked for money, but they're not nearly as frequently asked for, "How do I imitate you?" Hmm."How do I learn the skills that you had?" And very often, late in, later in their lives, they're very interested in sharing that information. Right. Because developmentally, uh, older people are looking to give back to the younger generation. Right. Wow. That's pretty powerful. Well, thank you, Roger. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So this is Second Thoughts with Roger Hall, and if you like this content, please like, subscribe, and we'd love for you to share it with a friend. If you think anything in, uh, what I've said today would help someone you know or love, uh, please sh- share this video with them.